Honestly, I’m not all that bothered by the FURTHER event. Of course it was a marketing event put on by a company whose has a less than stellar track record. But it was also an event designed with heavy influence by Camille and the other athletes. The event itself was probably designed as a requirement of Camille signing with them (but I haven’t asked her personally and she might not be able to say publicly). It was also an unprecedented opportunity that the brand provided all ten athletes involved. One that any athlete, pro or newb, would be jealous to be involved in. (How much of your dislike is that you weren’t involved in any capacity? Not judging, just something to think about for a moment.) It was absolutely incredible to see not-Nike put scientific and monetary resources into running in a discipline that is not Olympic bound. I can’t wait for the data behind this project to come out.
Even with that input from the athletes, it was first and foremost a marketing event. Just as pro athletes are first and foremost marketing tools. We can argue if that needs to be changed elsewhere, but the point is that this insanely amazing athletic event is also meant to provide a huge ROI for the brand. Lululemon picked the women, designed the clothing, and marketed the event to match the brands target demographic in order to sell more clothes to the people who buy/are likely to the most already from Lululemon. As much as we want them to be, a brand can’t be all things to all people, and Lululemon knows their lane. They stayed in it. Trendy, high end athletic gear, that’s stylish enough to wear to the cafe after one’s run or, not to be too shocking, to wear to the cafe without having even run at all. It wasn’t going to be bold. It was going to be trendy, look good on camera, and the marketing shots for said clothing was going to make the women look like models… I’m just happy the clothing was functional (more than many brands can say).
Would it have been cool for this one of a kind event to have included the demographics you mention (or my own)? Absolutely. Am I in anyway mad that Lululemon diversified in a way that was incredibly inclusive (even without comparing it to the failed diversity efforts of really any brand’s trail running team it was a huge step), allowed them to focus on their target demographic, and allowed the medical researchers to collect data on the demo they wanted, while giving a once in a lifetime opportunity to ten incredible women, and they didn’t get it 100%. Absolutely not.
As easy as it is to criticize Lululemon, this event was never going to be all things to all people. Nor should it have had to be.
I think it’s on us to lobby for “the next FURTHER”. To have top, bankable talent, influencers (of any kind not just SM), and researchers approach $brand and say these demos were missed at the event. These are key demographics who spend money at your brand but who were overlooked when Lululemon did their event. Let’s do something to target them. ROI talks. That’ll get someone interested in talking and funding the next project in whatever form it takes. If no brand wants to take part then researchers and athletes can collaborate to get grants to support research on older athletes, and maybe seek sponsorship for the project once the research projects have been put in place. It’s hard work but ground up and is likely the only way something like it will get done. Talk to Megan Roche or the handful of other folks doing research on female athletes. (Roche was involved in FURTHER and maybe has thoughts on how to achieve the next one.) It’s not a big community.
As for FURTHER, it was amazing to watch. I know it inspired a lot of people. Even tons in the demos they overlooked, as well as non-runners, men, and all sorts of others. Incredible achievements all around, by all involved, including the support, research, and marketing staff too. At the end of the day it’s also a big commercial for a high end athleisure clothing brand. It can be both without having one detract from the other.
(I write all this not owning anything Lululemon, nor having strong opinions good or bad about the company, while also knowing the founder’s problematic views yet also knowing he hasn’t been involved in any company governance in more than ten years. It’s just another brand.)
Sorry for the essay, it was written out on my phone and that usually makes it 10x longer than it needs to be.
Thanks for reading and for sharing all that! No, I wasn’t bothered by not being invited, lol, that didn’t affect my view. I know most viewers share your enthusiasm, but I’ve been getting many comments, mostly private, thanking me for looking at the project and brand with a critical eye.
You mention Camille—I’m curious if she had a say in the venue. It seemed like a very odd choice for a location climate-wise to break distance records, given the afternoon heat and full-sun exposure. That they persevered in that heat is even more impressive.
Your comments regarding not including many mothers is interesting to me. I didn’t notice. But I’m also not a mother. I would have liked to hear more about each persons story, the idea of using influencers instead of having a live stream or content from the organisers really annoyed me, especially at the start when there was just the tracker page.
As a child free woman, I find the mother athlete a bit of a trope that the media like to throw out there. I find it really frustrating, like they haven’t done any research and so the line is usually their performance is even more impressive “because they’re a mother”. Have you noticed that? It’s kind of insulting. No one mentions how many kids elite men have!
And why are they bragging about all their product innovations if we can’t buy them?
I have no stake in Lululemon's FURTHER, but I do agree it's always appeared to me the company is marketed for the affluent. But so is Grand to Grand Ultra. $3900 entry fee. WTF. Not long before other stage races push that type of entry fee and $400+ is the norm for 100s. Add in our horrible economy, ultra running appears to be pushing the averaged and low-income people out, including me. Sorry for the side rant.
I appreciate your post and commentary. And yes, including mothers young and old would be a nice addition of data.
No apologies needed for side rant, I hear you! That fee is very high and out of reach for many. (I always pay less due to alumni discounts, and the first time I ran it, I was comp'ed entry as a writer for Trail Runner.) Just to put the Grand to Grand in perspective however -- it's a full week of support including hotel room before and after, which they pay; they have a full medical staff that they pay; it's a ton of transportation costs since it's such a vast region that the route covers; they pay food/lodging for a team of volunteers, for moving porta-potties to all those different camps, and they pay for a crew to set up the tents we sleep in, etc.... so I know it sounds crazy high almost at $4K but it's not a typical ultra. It's comparable to Racing the Planet's stage races, and as someone who's been researching weeklong writer's retreats, those all seem to cost about that much. So I'm justifying it as a weeklong "vacation." I wish it didn't cost so much. I'm glad they offer two free entries to locals from the host town of Kanab. On a brighter note, I started my day by signing up for a 24-hour ultra that's only $125! It's Gnar Runners' new timed ultra the first weekend in November in Fort Collins :-). Thanks so much for reading!
I started ultra racing when I was 55 and now am 70 in May.
IMO, 60 should be the low end of the grandmaster category. There are too many (and more now than ever before) true elites in their 50's. Where it really bursts open is in the 60s decade.
Megan Laws has been the an elite @ WS etc for her entire 50's career and earlier? and Abbs-Anderson, Luanne Park doing damn well in their 60's And we have 80 yr Hesseltine, Charles Savage of course for do many years... I think it will weaken the category to start it at the 50's...
ooh just wait a decade...you will be great in your 60's no matter what we are called!
Moab sounds great…it’s on my list!! Love the 50+ category thing…Vacation Races “doesn’t do age group awards” 😕 And I also had wierd mixed feelings about the further thing “it’s awesome, but…” I would NEVER run 100 miles in neutral tan running shorts 🤣 thanks for sharing your thoughts on it…as always, way more eloquent than I could ever manage!
Huge congrats on NOT tripping or falling!!! My number 1 goal, always (only 50/50 chance to achievce, I can easier hit the fitness goal than this one, sadly). BTW, Tejas Trails always had masters start at 50 (my best running was in my 40's).
Really appreciate bringing attention to the fact on demographic that was not represented at Lulu. Yes, on mothers, grandmasters, menopause, etc. I figured, or at least treated, this event as a high profile promo. Were the performances inspiring? Absolutely loud YES. Holy shit, Camille! And I'm not even remotely into circle running (I quit my one and only attempt at 24 hrs at mile 63). What she did is mind blowing. But, if they're trying to market it as a research opportunity, then they did miss out. If they provided it as a venue for clothes line, whatever (I am not into any new clothes, period, I ride my life on old crap or hand-me-downs, on principles).
Sarah, I just subscribed to your substack and I really appreciate your thoughtful commentary on the Lulu Lemon Further event. Thank you for mentioning mothers and 50+ runners. I am a mother of three young girls (4yrs, 2.5yrs, 9m) and I am an aspiring ultra runner. The women in this event are so inspiring for what they did, hands down. I, like you, would also love to see more stories of incredible mothers who run competitively and see what a mother (and her support team - partner, care takers, or any support that they have) juggles to achieve time to run and train to reach further distances and achieve healthier habits and lifestyle for her family, while simultaneously keeping her family priority. We don't have to give up our dreams of building a family or our dreams of running. They can be synergistically cooperative and supportive. How does the breast feeding mother fuel/eat to not only feed her baby's hunger, but her own hunger, as well as her hunger to run? How do we encourage those new moms, to take the first step "back" again (WITH her baby)? How does recovery impact our ability to grow stronger during these pre/post partum phases, as well as pre/post menopausal phases. I LOVE where your heads at. Thank you for posing questions and not being afraid to share. Huge congrats to all women in the event & to you for searching FURTHER into what is being marketed to the larger audience (women and girls all around the world). Mothers push further. 50+ women push further, too!
I agree 100%on further both in the awesomeness of the athletes and the sketchy side of the company. Im definitely putting Mohab on my list it sounds amazing
great read Sarah! I also had mixed feelings about the Further event although was transfixed by the amazingness of the runners. And yay for not falling!!!! Always my first goal in a trail race.
Congrats on a great Moab race experience! I did the Trans Rockies for the first (and probably only) time this past summer and I went into it skeptical as well. In the end, I bought into and had the best time, despite coming home with COVID. :/
Re: The Lululemon event, I appreciate your thoughts and thoughtful commentary. My perspective is that I hope we allow space for people (and companies) to change and improve past mistakes. Additionally, why pick on them for doing SOMETHING for women? They created this big event filled with scientific researchers specifically to study their own sponsored athletes which will hopefully benefit all women. They can’t do everything in one event and as a brand mixing science and marketing is what they are about. Would it be better if they’d opted to do nothing even if what they did wasn’t perfect. Maybe other brands and scientists will be inspired by this to create MORE studies. I totally understand the thinking and agree older women, menopause and mothers should be studied as well! Again, thanks for your thoughts—I really appreciate getting critical thinking about all of these topics. :)
Thanks Sarah. Moab sounds like a fun event! As far as the Further thing, they probably nailed their marketing goals. I bet if you shared some of your thoughts with them they may take your inputs seriously for next time. It would be brilliant for them to “listen” to feedback from the community (I’m sure they are as that’s how mkt works) as it would lead potentially to more revenue and an expanded target market.
Way to go in Moab!!!! Whoop Whoop...I did the Red Hot 55K a few years back...Virginia Beach training did not set me up well but I toughed it out. Looks like amazing weather and a great few days...cheers to you SLS.
Honestly, I’m not all that bothered by the FURTHER event. Of course it was a marketing event put on by a company whose has a less than stellar track record. But it was also an event designed with heavy influence by Camille and the other athletes. The event itself was probably designed as a requirement of Camille signing with them (but I haven’t asked her personally and she might not be able to say publicly). It was also an unprecedented opportunity that the brand provided all ten athletes involved. One that any athlete, pro or newb, would be jealous to be involved in. (How much of your dislike is that you weren’t involved in any capacity? Not judging, just something to think about for a moment.) It was absolutely incredible to see not-Nike put scientific and monetary resources into running in a discipline that is not Olympic bound. I can’t wait for the data behind this project to come out.
Even with that input from the athletes, it was first and foremost a marketing event. Just as pro athletes are first and foremost marketing tools. We can argue if that needs to be changed elsewhere, but the point is that this insanely amazing athletic event is also meant to provide a huge ROI for the brand. Lululemon picked the women, designed the clothing, and marketed the event to match the brands target demographic in order to sell more clothes to the people who buy/are likely to the most already from Lululemon. As much as we want them to be, a brand can’t be all things to all people, and Lululemon knows their lane. They stayed in it. Trendy, high end athletic gear, that’s stylish enough to wear to the cafe after one’s run or, not to be too shocking, to wear to the cafe without having even run at all. It wasn’t going to be bold. It was going to be trendy, look good on camera, and the marketing shots for said clothing was going to make the women look like models… I’m just happy the clothing was functional (more than many brands can say).
Would it have been cool for this one of a kind event to have included the demographics you mention (or my own)? Absolutely. Am I in anyway mad that Lululemon diversified in a way that was incredibly inclusive (even without comparing it to the failed diversity efforts of really any brand’s trail running team it was a huge step), allowed them to focus on their target demographic, and allowed the medical researchers to collect data on the demo they wanted, while giving a once in a lifetime opportunity to ten incredible women, and they didn’t get it 100%. Absolutely not.
As easy as it is to criticize Lululemon, this event was never going to be all things to all people. Nor should it have had to be.
I think it’s on us to lobby for “the next FURTHER”. To have top, bankable talent, influencers (of any kind not just SM), and researchers approach $brand and say these demos were missed at the event. These are key demographics who spend money at your brand but who were overlooked when Lululemon did their event. Let’s do something to target them. ROI talks. That’ll get someone interested in talking and funding the next project in whatever form it takes. If no brand wants to take part then researchers and athletes can collaborate to get grants to support research on older athletes, and maybe seek sponsorship for the project once the research projects have been put in place. It’s hard work but ground up and is likely the only way something like it will get done. Talk to Megan Roche or the handful of other folks doing research on female athletes. (Roche was involved in FURTHER and maybe has thoughts on how to achieve the next one.) It’s not a big community.
As for FURTHER, it was amazing to watch. I know it inspired a lot of people. Even tons in the demos they overlooked, as well as non-runners, men, and all sorts of others. Incredible achievements all around, by all involved, including the support, research, and marketing staff too. At the end of the day it’s also a big commercial for a high end athleisure clothing brand. It can be both without having one detract from the other.
(I write all this not owning anything Lululemon, nor having strong opinions good or bad about the company, while also knowing the founder’s problematic views yet also knowing he hasn’t been involved in any company governance in more than ten years. It’s just another brand.)
Sorry for the essay, it was written out on my phone and that usually makes it 10x longer than it needs to be.
Thanks for reading and for sharing all that! No, I wasn’t bothered by not being invited, lol, that didn’t affect my view. I know most viewers share your enthusiasm, but I’ve been getting many comments, mostly private, thanking me for looking at the project and brand with a critical eye.
You mention Camille—I’m curious if she had a say in the venue. It seemed like a very odd choice for a location climate-wise to break distance records, given the afternoon heat and full-sun exposure. That they persevered in that heat is even more impressive.
Thank you! You expressed exactly what I was feeling.
Your comments regarding not including many mothers is interesting to me. I didn’t notice. But I’m also not a mother. I would have liked to hear more about each persons story, the idea of using influencers instead of having a live stream or content from the organisers really annoyed me, especially at the start when there was just the tracker page.
As a child free woman, I find the mother athlete a bit of a trope that the media like to throw out there. I find it really frustrating, like they haven’t done any research and so the line is usually their performance is even more impressive “because they’re a mother”. Have you noticed that? It’s kind of insulting. No one mentions how many kids elite men have!
And why are they bragging about all their product innovations if we can’t buy them?
Well said and thank you!
I have no stake in Lululemon's FURTHER, but I do agree it's always appeared to me the company is marketed for the affluent. But so is Grand to Grand Ultra. $3900 entry fee. WTF. Not long before other stage races push that type of entry fee and $400+ is the norm for 100s. Add in our horrible economy, ultra running appears to be pushing the averaged and low-income people out, including me. Sorry for the side rant.
I appreciate your post and commentary. And yes, including mothers young and old would be a nice addition of data.
No apologies needed for side rant, I hear you! That fee is very high and out of reach for many. (I always pay less due to alumni discounts, and the first time I ran it, I was comp'ed entry as a writer for Trail Runner.) Just to put the Grand to Grand in perspective however -- it's a full week of support including hotel room before and after, which they pay; they have a full medical staff that they pay; it's a ton of transportation costs since it's such a vast region that the route covers; they pay food/lodging for a team of volunteers, for moving porta-potties to all those different camps, and they pay for a crew to set up the tents we sleep in, etc.... so I know it sounds crazy high almost at $4K but it's not a typical ultra. It's comparable to Racing the Planet's stage races, and as someone who's been researching weeklong writer's retreats, those all seem to cost about that much. So I'm justifying it as a weeklong "vacation." I wish it didn't cost so much. I'm glad they offer two free entries to locals from the host town of Kanab. On a brighter note, I started my day by signing up for a 24-hour ultra that's only $125! It's Gnar Runners' new timed ultra the first weekend in November in Fort Collins :-). Thanks so much for reading!
Hey Sarah,
Great piece!!
I started ultra racing when I was 55 and now am 70 in May.
IMO, 60 should be the low end of the grandmaster category. There are too many (and more now than ever before) true elites in their 50's. Where it really bursts open is in the 60s decade.
Megan Laws has been the an elite @ WS etc for her entire 50's career and earlier? and Abbs-Anderson, Luanne Park doing damn well in their 60's And we have 80 yr Hesseltine, Charles Savage of course for do many years... I think it will weaken the category to start it at the 50's...
ooh just wait a decade...you will be great in your 60's no matter what we are called!
I always love your perspective Angie :-). Thanks for reading.
Moab sounds great…it’s on my list!! Love the 50+ category thing…Vacation Races “doesn’t do age group awards” 😕 And I also had wierd mixed feelings about the further thing “it’s awesome, but…” I would NEVER run 100 miles in neutral tan running shorts 🤣 thanks for sharing your thoughts on it…as always, way more eloquent than I could ever manage!
Exactly — yes please to more info/studies for post-menopausal athletes!
“Throw pillows from ikea”. Nailed it. And much more. Great piece.
Huge congrats on NOT tripping or falling!!! My number 1 goal, always (only 50/50 chance to achievce, I can easier hit the fitness goal than this one, sadly). BTW, Tejas Trails always had masters start at 50 (my best running was in my 40's).
Really appreciate bringing attention to the fact on demographic that was not represented at Lulu. Yes, on mothers, grandmasters, menopause, etc. I figured, or at least treated, this event as a high profile promo. Were the performances inspiring? Absolutely loud YES. Holy shit, Camille! And I'm not even remotely into circle running (I quit my one and only attempt at 24 hrs at mile 63). What she did is mind blowing. But, if they're trying to market it as a research opportunity, then they did miss out. If they provided it as a venue for clothes line, whatever (I am not into any new clothes, period, I ride my life on old crap or hand-me-downs, on principles).
Anyway, well written, and food for thought.
Thanks Olga!
Sarah, I just subscribed to your substack and I really appreciate your thoughtful commentary on the Lulu Lemon Further event. Thank you for mentioning mothers and 50+ runners. I am a mother of three young girls (4yrs, 2.5yrs, 9m) and I am an aspiring ultra runner. The women in this event are so inspiring for what they did, hands down. I, like you, would also love to see more stories of incredible mothers who run competitively and see what a mother (and her support team - partner, care takers, or any support that they have) juggles to achieve time to run and train to reach further distances and achieve healthier habits and lifestyle for her family, while simultaneously keeping her family priority. We don't have to give up our dreams of building a family or our dreams of running. They can be synergistically cooperative and supportive. How does the breast feeding mother fuel/eat to not only feed her baby's hunger, but her own hunger, as well as her hunger to run? How do we encourage those new moms, to take the first step "back" again (WITH her baby)? How does recovery impact our ability to grow stronger during these pre/post partum phases, as well as pre/post menopausal phases. I LOVE where your heads at. Thank you for posing questions and not being afraid to share. Huge congrats to all women in the event & to you for searching FURTHER into what is being marketed to the larger audience (women and girls all around the world). Mothers push further. 50+ women push further, too!
I agree 100%on further both in the awesomeness of the athletes and the sketchy side of the company. Im definitely putting Mohab on my list it sounds amazing
great read Sarah! I also had mixed feelings about the Further event although was transfixed by the amazingness of the runners. And yay for not falling!!!! Always my first goal in a trail race.
Congrats on a great Moab race experience! I did the Trans Rockies for the first (and probably only) time this past summer and I went into it skeptical as well. In the end, I bought into and had the best time, despite coming home with COVID. :/
Re: The Lululemon event, I appreciate your thoughts and thoughtful commentary. My perspective is that I hope we allow space for people (and companies) to change and improve past mistakes. Additionally, why pick on them for doing SOMETHING for women? They created this big event filled with scientific researchers specifically to study their own sponsored athletes which will hopefully benefit all women. They can’t do everything in one event and as a brand mixing science and marketing is what they are about. Would it be better if they’d opted to do nothing even if what they did wasn’t perfect. Maybe other brands and scientists will be inspired by this to create MORE studies. I totally understand the thinking and agree older women, menopause and mothers should be studied as well! Again, thanks for your thoughts—I really appreciate getting critical thinking about all of these topics. :)
Thanks Sarah. Moab sounds like a fun event! As far as the Further thing, they probably nailed their marketing goals. I bet if you shared some of your thoughts with them they may take your inputs seriously for next time. It would be brilliant for them to “listen” to feedback from the community (I’m sure they are as that’s how mkt works) as it would lead potentially to more revenue and an expanded target market.
Great comments. Good things to think about and put into context for sure.
Scott, thanks! I’m eager to hear about your experience crewing Camille; I hope you’ll write about it or talk about it on your podcast.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297?i=1000466478013
More background on Chip Wilson ....
Way to go in Moab!!!! Whoop Whoop...I did the Red Hot 55K a few years back...Virginia Beach training did not set me up well but I toughed it out. Looks like amazing weather and a great few days...cheers to you SLS.
https://run.outsideonline.com/road/inside-further-an-ultra-for-the-instagram-age/